Henry David Thoreau is an author who is "a public servant, offering the English-speaking public the fruits of his experience" (711). He was an abolutonist who cared very much for nature. In one of his books The Maine Woods there is "very little satire" and the most "heightening passage" is "Thoreau's realization that the Maine woods were 'primeval, untamed, and forever untameable Nature'" (710). Why is this the most heightened passage and what does it truly reveal about nature, or humans? How does this relate to Thoreau's abolitionist ideas and what he saw the world as in general?
Support, refute, or modify this quote: "No good reader will ever be entirely pleased with him- or herself or with the current state of culture and civilization while reading any of Thoreau's best works" (713).
Thoreau’s works instill in readers a desire to be pure, self sufficient, and dedicated to equality of fellow men. “Why should we live with such hurry and waste of life?” (777) he asks. “We are determined to be starved before we are hungry.” Thoreau found peace and “simplicity” in nature.
ReplyDeleteReaders, then, long to give up their constant struggle to climb the ranks of society and “live what [is] not life,” (776). The frustrating aspect about Thoreau’s portrayal of life worth living is that society can never exist in such a form that people are not constantly lost in it. The purity of Thoreau’s life cannot help but make readers feel guilty for failure to follow passion.
In Thoreau's writing, he establishes a feeling of desire to better oneself in his readers. It is just as the quote, "No good reader will ever be entirely pleased with him- or herself or with the current state of culture and civilization while reading any of Thoreau's best works"(713) states. He creates a desire in the reader to live a life as simplistic as he does, and to escape the confines of society.
ReplyDeleteThoreau establishes this desire in his reader by employing rhetorical questions. He questions his readers, "Why should we live with such hurry and waste of life"(777). In doing this, the readers re-evaluate what they had previously come to define as life. When he talks about the importance of awakening in the morning, Thoreau asks, "Why is it that men give so poor an account of their day if they have not been slumbering"(775). He emphasizes the importance of consciousness and declares "to be awake is to be alive"(775). In describing sleep and consciousness in such a way and by questioning why men believe that without sleep life is not as significantly good, Thoreau establishes a feeling of shame in the reader. He forces his readers to question the way in which they live their own life and how exactly they can improve the quality of their lives.
I agree with Carolyn, and I think that this relates to "Self Reliance" and our discussion today. Someone like Thoreau is completely unordinary in comparison to the other people in society. He was a man "who had no humor" (712) and seemed to "drift into an odd way of life, rather than choosing it deliberately" (708). Thoreau separated himself from others, refusing to "live by the materialistic values of the neighbors who provided him with a microcosm of the world" (709). To Thoreau, a life lived simply was a life lived well. He also had such a faith in people that leads to the guilt felt by his readers; Thoreau believed that people had such moral potential and opportunity to live extraordinarily. He says, "It is something to be able to paint a particular picture, or to carve a statue, and so to make a few objects beautiful but it is far more glorious to carve and paint the very atmosphere and medium through which we look, which morally we can do" (775). Thoreau has hope for the human race, that someday we can see our potential and live a life filled with thought and realization. He wishes for people to "suck out all the marrow of life ... to get the whole and genuine meanness of it, and publish its meanness to the world" (776). However, within the reality of society, people do not do this; they live in a time where technology becomes more advanced, and little by little, the need to think for oneself is eliminated. Thoreau's works cause the reader to not only feel guilty about their failure to follow passion, but also to realize their potential to follow this passion.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the modify option is never taken. And in this instance, I think it is actually the best option. Thoreau's philosophy of simplification and his love of the wilderness are just too extreme to completely adopt, unless you want to join the Amish out in cow-town Pennsylvania.
ReplyDeleteSo while a reader may actually agree that the ideal life would be in "complete retirement, being about two miles from the village", any rational person would realize that such a goal is impossible for society as a whole to abide by.
However, there are certain aspects of Thoreau's philosophy that are intriguing and practical in the modern world. The extended metaphor comparing wakening in the morning from a dark sleep with spiritual and intellectual reform was very refreshing. The idea of being called "to a higher life than we fell asleep from" each morning is morally sound and practical.
So I would modify the quote to "No good reader will ever be entirely inspired to act upon all of, but may be influenced by some of, Thoreau's ideas about the current state of culture and civilization while reading his best works" (Frasco 1). lol.
I think, perhaps, on page 710 when the author of this packet is talking about "the most heightening passage"in The Maine Woods, he is not saying that Thoreau's conclusions about nature are particularly shocking. They are simply those that stand out most in a piece that was not meant to be beuatiful or riling or unique in style, but truthful. That nature is "primeval,untamed, and forever untameable" was probably a well known fact among thinking men (710). But Thoreau's prose is simple and outright and makes connections between nature "and the higher latitudes to be found within oneself" (710). Nature, unlike society, never progresses nor regresses. It is pureand without corruption ast the writer should not be corrupted by the thoughts or criticisms of others.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it is interesting that living outdoors leads Thoreau to write mostly about "people,places, plants,and animals" (710).This seems to support the idea that one can see society best when they remoove themselves from it. Thoreaus ideas apply more to humanity than directly to plants and trees and flowers.
I think that what Thoreau tries to warn against the issues that he sees occurring in his 19th century society which is that the nation is "tripped up by its own traps, ruined by luxury and heedless expense" that is also "unwieldy and overgrown" (776). Looking at society today, (while problems may not be the greatest word choice) consumer goods still dominate much of our society's desires. We still look to gain "luxury" and other "expenses". Thoreau's observations still stand.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I agree with Mike in that Thoreau's ideals are too drastic. The modern society, and even the 19th century society has already shifted towards an emphasis of living a comfortable, satisfying life; "luxuries" are just a tool that enables us to achieve that goal. However, Thoreau would rather us ""simplify, simplify" and "instead of three meals a day...eat but one...and reduce other things in proportion" (776). This is too extreme, why would society, or even the individual, choose hardship over comfort, hunger over a hot meal?
Instead of supporting, refuting, or modifying this statement, I would ask, why would an individual, or a society, choose to "simply" choosing work, over comfort? What would this achieve? Put yourself in the situation, if you were given the choice, would you wish to "simplify"? why or why not?
Great responses everybody! I agree with both Mike and Chelsea about his ideas being a little too extreme. Chelsea, I agree that most people would not choose work over comfort, but I think that is what Thoreau is trying to get at: Finding one's individual self is not easy, there must be work put into it and comfort zones breached. This I think is what puts "good" writers into a different category then most people. The whole point of his "simplify, simplify" (776) idea of life is too set apart those willing to actually do it. This will ultimately lead to who is fully devoted in their writing.
ReplyDeleteI would like everyone to focus more on the ideas of slavery with the quote "Thoreau's realization that the Maine woods were 'primeval, untamed, and forever untameable Nature.'" Think of what the slaves were considered back then : "primeval and untamed." Does this realization account for all men, or only slaves? Other than that the posts are good :)
Also I would like to point out what Lowell said (one of Thoreau's biggest critics): "Thoreau [was] a mere echoer of Emerson, 'surly and stoic', with a 'morbid self-consciousness that pronounces the world of men empty and worthless before trying it" (712). How is this quote ironic to what people have been saying: that we could never live like he did, it wouldnt be possible.
ReplyDeleteThoreau's whole life was based around "a calculated refusal to live by the materialistic values [of society]" (709). Thoreau goes to such extremes, as Mike points out, that the attaining of such a goal as his would be absurd. At one point, Thoreau asserts that "we do not ride on the railroad; it rides upon us" (776). By this, Thoreau means that people should be less inclined to live fast, as he puts it. He argues that if everyone were to "stay at home and mind our business" that there would be no need for travel, no need to build railroads (776).
ReplyDeleteThoreau's main philosophy centers around this idea of simplicity, asserting that "our life is frittered away by detail" (776). But isn't detail what makes life so beautiful? When I remember some of my fondest childhood memories, that's what I remember: the detail. Details make life comfortable, they make life worth living. Sure you could get rid of detail and get rid of the labor that people must perform to create trains, but then where do people go? Nowhere. They remain at home, not progressing, abandoning society, and as Thoreau suggests in his climactic paragraph, remaining as unchanged as nature over time.
For me that quote would be modified to: "No good reader will ever be not reminded that some people aren't entirely pleased with him- or herself or with the current state of culture and civilization while reading any of Thoreau's best works". Thoreau wants society to progress into something where his motto, "That government is best which governs not at all" (713). He wants a civilization of self-sufficient who do everything for themselves and live by their own standards. Some who read this at the time it was written may have completely agreed but other would have only become aware that that is how others felt. Any society that exists is the way it is because a group of people were happy with an idea of living and made it possible. So those who believed in America progressing into the free market place it was becoming, that to some extent depended on people relying on each other, would not be pleased with Thoreau's ideas but completely fine with their own. Moving on, I found it interesting that one of Thoreau's main ideas behind humans and nature was quite similar to what we talked about at the end of class today regarding an Emerson idea. "We must learn to reawaken and keep ourselves awake, not by mechanical aids..." (775), says Thoreau and this shares a striking resemblance to the Emerson idea that, "civilized man has built a coach, but has lost the use of his feet..." (452). Both men greatly believe non-natural outside sources affect his insides and outlook too strongly.
ReplyDeleteIn agreement with previous responses, Thoreau's extremeties prevent any good reader from fully accepting themselves after reading Thoreau's points in his best work. His argument as to why "we live with such hurry and waste of life" most likely puts people off (777). In fact, many believe that the path they choose to take is beneficial-not a waste. It is the human stubbornness that prevents people from opening up and accepting some of Thoreau's most prominent ideas. In human defense, however, since Kindergarten, children have been asked "what do you want to be when you grow up?" The future has been instilled in us since we were children, we were being exposed to living outside of the moment, opposing Thoreau's argument and throwing the reader into a spin of confusion, since they were never taught otherwise. Grown up, isn't it success that brings most people satisfaction? Of course, this is what Thoreau is arguing-that it should not bring satisfaction because the individual becomes obsessed with conforming to society's standards, "determined to be starved before we are hungry", squeezing every last drop out of ourself in order to succeed (777). So, when Thoreau suggests that the way in which we live our lives is ineffective to the individual prosperity, there is no doubt that people would not be happy with themselves and the path they fell so deeply into.
ReplyDeleteI would like to agree with this quote. It seems that by Thoreau's direct emphasis of critiquing the materialistic desires of society, a feeling of uncomfort can be sensed in the slightest degree.
ReplyDeleteThoreau chose to not "live by the materialistic values of the neighbors" and in this choice it emphasizes the choices in my own existence (709). I do not wake up in the morning and choose to live a materialistic life, but it seems to be ingrained in humans that materialism goes hand in hand with being a bad reflection of society, when in fact (paradoxically) materialism may be simply wanting to look presentable, wearing nice things to give off a good appearance to society and ultimately raise society's standards.
As for the "current state of culture and civilization," as we look upon our government today, it explicitly governs with a strong hand. Yes, we do live in a 'democratic-republic' but the fact that government plays such a strong role in our daily lives (all politics aside, consider public/private health care...our government affects miniscule parts of our daily life: if we will be covered to treat a cold)! Thoreau pleads and accepts the motto "That government is best which governs not at all" (713). Thoreau would be ashamed at the standing army that waits, and currently fights for our protection. Thoreau would be heartily against the need for so many people in government; likewise Thoreau would be against having too much power from one person. Government, in Thoreau's eyes seem to "show thus how successfully men can be imposed on" and not how well men can be organized, as one may think.
As Thoreau reaches extremes in his ideas of solitude. It makes it extremely difficult for readers to relate and subsequently follow. As he wants to live in an independent society, based of of solitude, he hopes for a government that doesn't in fact govern at all (713). However his transcendental ideas become intangible to the point where the reader must question his/her self. Thoreau's work causes readers to question aspects of their life. Ultimately when one is forced to question themselves, is when they are placed with the most discomfort, in a state of instability, in which "No good reader will ever be entirely pleased with him- or herself or with the current state of culture and civilization" (713).
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